Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of highways in Essex County, New York/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 14:29, 5 July 2009 [1].

List of highways in Essex County, New York[edit]

Nominator(s): Mitch/HC32 20:03, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Toolbox

I am nominating this for featured list because this, after 15 months, have been finally finished. I worked hard and recently got help copyediting for grammar and other errors. All comments are welcomed. (NOTE: If you have prose concerns, can I ask that he or she put out an entire list of issues? Grammar is not a strong point and would be helpful. Thanks.) It meets the criteria and has the precedents of List of highways in Warren County, New York (to which this is based), and List of state highways in Marquette County, Michigan. Mitch/HC32 20:03, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. Dabomb87 (talk) 13:26, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done.Mitch/HC32 18:56, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments - I have some concerns before I can support this article to be a FL:
  1. Why are there citations in the lead?
  2. Can the headers for the list of routes be changed to match what is in List of highways in Warren County, New York.
  3. In the table for State routes, U.S. Routes, and Interstates, I-87 and US 9 should be listed before the state routes rather than mixed in with them.
  4. Are the formation dates for any of the reference routes (besides NY 915K) known?
  5. Request shields for the county routes.
  6. Can lengths be added for the county routes? Dough4872 (talk) 18:32, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Citations are allowed in the lead if the comment doesn't come later in the body. Fixed the second one. Fixed the third. For the fourth issue, that is really doubtful, as 910L (now 185), and 915K are really the only two with ways to have it. The fifth thing: Requested, don't think you'll get them in time. The final thing, it would take weeks to get all those in, and besides, Warren doesn't have him, so its following a precedent.Mitch/HC32 18:52, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Since my issues have been addressed, I will Support this for FL (By the way, the shields have been created). Dough4872 (talk) 16:03, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:36, 29 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
Oppose from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) Plenty of prose problems, but I'm willing to reconsider.
  • "There is one interstate highway in Essex County, which is Interstate 87 (better known as the Adirondack Northway)."-->The only interstate highway in Essex County is Interstate 87, better known as the Adirondack Northway.
  • "The only U.S. highway in the county is U.S. Route 9. "
  • "The next level of highway, state touring routes, with which there are eleven of them." Not a grammatical sentence, and numbers over ten are usually written in numerical form.
  • "All of the six reference routes in the county are short connectors"
  • "There are over sixty county roads" "sixty"-->60
  • "There is one interstate highway in Essex County, which is Interstate 87, stretching for"-->Interstate 87 is the only interstate highway in Essex County, and stretches for
  • "There is only one U.S. Route in Essex County, U.S. Route 9, which continues for 58.99 miles (94.94 km) in two segments."-->U.S. Route 9, the only one U.S. Route in Essex County, continues for 58.99 miles (94.94 km) in two segments.
  • "The first, a 57.83 miles (93.07 km) one enters from Warren County near Schroon Lake and the second, a 1.16 miles (1.87 km) stretch from both lines of Clinton County."-->The first, spanning 57.83 miles (93.07 km), enters from Warren County near Schroon Lake and the second, spanning 1.16 miles (1.87 km), stretches from both lines of Clinton County.
  • "Route 9 was assigned in the area in 1926 and remained relatively unchanged since." Add "has" before remained.

I'm stopping there because I think that's enough to show you that you need a copy-editor—Juliancolton (talk · contribs) is a good one. The issues are easy to spot, but I've neither the willpower nor the obligation to list them all. No need to ping me when the copy-edit is done; I'll be watching. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:03, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done with the comments above for now. Hired JC for copyediting.Mitch/HC32 17:53, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
 Doing..., though I am confused by this sentence: In Keene, there are five county routes along NY 73 that are former alignments of NY 86. –Juliancolton | Talk 18:00, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed it days ago.Mitch/HC32 13:58, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I made a few more tweaks, but there are some areas that I simply don't understand, and I don't feel competent to fix them. –Juliancolton | Talk 19:16, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • I copyedited the article myself, which isn't easy for me, so I hope its to your liking.Mitch/HC32 13:47, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Around this time, there was an addition of New York State Route 915K" Not sure what that means; what was it added to? Dabomb87 (talk) 21:44, 27 June 2009 (UTC)\\[reply]
  • "The next level of highway, state touring routes, which has 11 currently designated highways." Not sentence. Perhaps stuff was deleted by accident?
  • "Elizabethtown–Wadhams Road" Is it "Elizabeth" to "Wadhams Road", or is "Elizabeth to Wadhams" Road? If the former, the en dash should be spaced. Also, there should be em dashes in the blank cells (notes column). Dabomb87 (talk) 14:51, 29 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done :) - Mitch/HC32 15:05, 29 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What about the em dashes in the blank cells? When that is resolved, I will support. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:08, 29 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
{{done}} –Juliancolton | Talk 15:25, 29 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:36, 29 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues from Rambo's Revenge (talk · contribs)
Oppose from Rambo's Revenge (talk · contribs)
  • "about 697 miles (1,122 km) of the highway system in New York, with 339.6 miles (546.5 km) of state roads and 357.4 miles (575.2 km) of county roads", but the ref says 330.6, where have the extra 9 miles come from? Also this will affect the total.
Recalculated and fixed.
  • "including New York State Route 192 (now part of New York State Route 86,[7] New York State Route 427 (now part of New York State Route 73, and New York State Route 86A (also part of NY 73)." You have three open parenthesis and only one closing one.
Fixed.
Fixed.
  • "The lowest is CR 2" lowest? makes it sound like it is the one of least height above sea-level or something. Similarly for highest.
Reworded
  • I think it looks quite messy when the roadnames seperate from the icons they are next to wrap onto the next line. Can you force the names & icons to stay in one row.
Fixed. (Templating is not my thing).
  • Consistency issues between tables. First has header "Locations" the other "Towns crossed", first is sortable, second isn't.
Fixed.
  • When sorting buy route in the first, I'd expect US 9, and NY 9N to sort above "NY 910K" or am I wrong there.
Its going by order of importance of the designations (Interstates (87), U.S. Routes (9), Touring Routes (9N), and Reference Routes (910K)),
  • Therefore, as I suggested, shouldn't 9 go before 9N which should go before 910K..., when sorting by route? Rambo's Revenge (talk) 20:35, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No, its going in order of functionality and importance, which NYSDOT follows.
  • What I'm saying is when you click the by "Route #" the order given is shown in the collapsible box. I'm saying shouldn't NY 9N go before NY 910K when listing alphabetically. I'd also argue that US 9 should go before that, basically shouldn't it sort by the numbers of the roads. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 21:56, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Extended content
  • I-87
  • NY 185
  • NY 22
  • NY 28N
  • NY 3
  • NY 373
  • NY 431
  • NY 73
  • NY 74
  • NY 86
  • NY 910K
  • NY 910M
  • NY 912T
  • NY 913Q
  • NY 915F
  • NY 915K
  • NY 9N
  • US 9
  • What is the order of the Locations listed?
By order in which they are approached. I clarified that in the article.
These are two-way roads, approached from which direction? And say so in the list. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 21:56, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You seem to have clarified this with this edit so I'll strike this now. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 11:19, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Does the order merit sortability considering it is only the first being sorted by?
The sortability should be for the first, second and third. However, I can't fix that.
  • I notice you've made these unsortable now? Why, and also what was the relevence of first, second and third. I might be able to help with the sorting code if you want it. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 21:56, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The length obviously is sortable for learning's sake, and so is when they were designated, the other two would make it hard.Mitch/HC32 01:31, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sorry we had completely crossed wires here. I thought you were saying Location should be sorted by "the first, second and third". I now realise you were talking about which columns should sort. Anyway I'm fine with this. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 01:44, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 1 and have 2 New York State Department of Transportation as publisher, and others have it as author making it come first in the ref. Be consistent, I think publisher is better too.
Fixed.
  • You should use <ref name="1926 map">[[Bureau of Public Roads]], [[:Image:1926us.jpg|United States System of Highways]], November 11, 1926</ref> one the first occasions and <ref name="1926 map"/> on all others. Similarly for references named "jimapco" and "quad86".
Fixed.
  • What is the point of these 4 links that redirect to this article, i.e. just refresh the page.

Rambo's Revenge (talk) 19:04, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Redirected elsewhere.

I hope all of your concerns are resolved.Mitch/HC32 19:27, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

More things
  • You should add class="unsortable" to the Notes column.
Done.
  • Why the missing years in the first table?
There is no official documentation to when the reference route system was first started, and the reference routes without them are just completely unsure of. 915K was recent, and thus has a referenced year.
Done.
  • Similarly why do 915F and 915K link to Interstate 87 which has no mention of either.
Done.
  • Reading above comments I'm not happy with your answer to Dough4872's question "Can lengths be added for the county routes?". There is no WP:DEADLINE, and Warren was promoted over a year ago. Additionally would it be possible to also add years?

Rambo's Revenge (talk) 20:35, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Then there will be over 88 yahoo maps references, and will be a massive eyesore. As for the years, county routes are hard to come by as jurisdiction is not controlled. We can be sure that they were in by 1969, (For almost all of them, but we cannot be inconsistent. Also, the New York State Department of Transportation and Essex County Highway Department do not use the same highway designations, so its really hard to tell when which was established. Warren itself is another 80 and also would be an eyesore.Mitch/HC32 20:54, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Lots of references won't be an eyesore. You can make the reflist into multiple columns. For example this recent FL which has 92 refs. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 21:56, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure my comments are needed here but I didn't see it mentioned and I think a legend to tell the readers what the meaning is of the different signs are for clarification. I also recommend if you cannot determine the distances then put an emdash centered in the cell like you did for the first table. That way the readers won't think that the table is incomplete. --Kumioko (talk) 00:58, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I had to go to an interview, so I got interrupted.Mitch/HC32 01:31, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am done, this was a major headache, and now instead of 15 sources, there are 104 - meaning 89 sources. Wow. I hope this now gets your support.Mitch/HC32 20:14, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well done. I'm really do see that as an improvement to the list. I have struck the oppose, but would like the possibility of numerical sorting (my only unstruck bullet point) to be discussed/implemented before giving my full support. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 22:51, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
After 20 minutes of fiddling - I got it the way you put it above. :) - Hope it gets your support.Mitch/HC32 23:20, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That wasn't quite what I meant. I've fixed it to what I meant, if you disagree please do say or revert. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 23:40, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well done, I realise as a result of my review you've had to put in a fair bit of time to this list. I'm glad you persevered, and I can now support this list. Congratulations, Rambo's Revenge (talk) 23:40, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support looks good! iMatthew talk at  15:14, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I can't put my finger on any problems. MPJ-DK (talk) 09:26, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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