Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of concert tours by Michael Jackson and The Jackson 5/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 17:31, 29 October 2009 [1].

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List of concert tours by Michael Jackson and The Jackson 5

Nominator(s): Pyrrhus16 23:05, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

• Featured list candidates/List of concert tours by Michael Jackson and The Jackson 5/archive1

I am nominating this for featured list because... I have revamped it to a comprehensive list that I believe meets the FL criteria. The list is structured in a similar fashion to List of Kylie Minogue concert tours. Pyrrhus16 23:05, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

• Alt text checks out. –Juliancolton | ^Talk 00:31, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) "The brothers remained in their homeland for two more US tours, before successfully breaking out into Europe in 1972 and the world the subsequent year." This is a bit awkward and redundant. Is Europe not part of the world? Changed to "and the rest of the world the subsequent year" "biggest and highest-earning tour" What does it mean to be the "biggest ... tour"? Changed to "largest attended" "Summer 1971" It's winter in half the world. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:01, 10 October 2009 (UTC) There is no specific starting date or month for this tour; the book only cites it as beginning in "Summer 1971". Would adding "(US)" after "Summer" solve the problem? Pyrrhus16 20:19, 10 October 2009 (UTC) I think that would confuse it more. What about "Mid-1971"? Dabomb87 (talk) 16:30, 17 October 2009 (UTC) Done. Pyrrhus16 16:33, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:36, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:01, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Geraldk

Oppose in its current form. There are a number of copyediting and visual issues that need to be dealt with: The table itself needs some work to make it readable, as does the Kylie Minogue list you modeled it from. Because both the informational cells and the summary cell are the same color, it is visually confusing to the reader. Even a subtle difference in color would help, as in The Simpsons (season 1), which uses Template:Episode list. Added a bit shading to the headings. There has to be more information about some of these tours than the one sentence a couple of them have. The early tours aren't as well documented as the later ones. Little information exists on them. The lead image claims that the bad world tour was, "one of the most successful tours of all time." Define success specifically. Highest grossing? Biggest audiences? Most moonwalks? Changed to "highest grossing". lead "breaking out into Europe in 1972 and the rest of world the subsequent year" could use some rewording - breaking out into is unwieldy. Altered, not sure if it's a great improvement though. lead "Their 1981 36-city circulation of the US—the Triumph Tour—succeeded." in what way? "Succeeded" in that it came next. lead "release of the band's Victory and Michael Jackson's Thriller" need to make clear to the lay reader that these are albums somehow. They could also be wikilinked. Made it clear that they are albums. Dates for the 1971 and 1972 tours make it seem like they visited fifty venues in one month. Fixed the end date for the 1971 tour. Don't know what needs done for the 1972 one; the description states that it was only a 12-day tour of Europe and there are no specific start/end dates for it. in 1970 "Boston, Cincinnati, and New York" vs. "New Zealand, the Philippines and the West Indies" - it doesn't matter whether you use the serial comma or not, just pick one version and be consistent with it. Done. Geraldk (talk) 12:28, 12 October 2009 (UTC) Thanks for the suggestions. Pyrrhus16 14:41, 12 October 2009 (UTC) Good work on the quick cleanup. I do think you need to find a better way to say what you are trying to say about the 1981 tour, the meaning of 'succeeded' you use is a fairly rare usage and makes the meaning of that sentence unclear. Geraldk (talk) 18:08, 12 October 2009 (UTC) I've changed it to "came next". Pyrrhus16 12:14, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Support - my concerns have been addressed. Geraldk (talk) 12:51, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 13:48, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Comments Not sure why the location of the tour is included in a cell called "Duration"? Would changing the cell name to "Durations and locations" help? The reader may want to know when a particular continent was visited. Maybe really picky, you could link $ to the US variant as you've mentioned Canada in the same sentence. Done. "the subsequent year" - not keen, personal opinion warning though, would prefer "following"? Done. "1992/1993" all other date spans in this list appear to use an en-dash, why not here? Done. This may have been discussed and discounted, but you end the intro on his "last" tour, would it be worth mentioning the "This Is It" planned tour? I think it's so significant that it could at least be mentioned? Added. Question - is there a criterion 3b issue here? Could the details of Jackson 5 tours not be easily merged into the main Jackson 5 article and likewise with the MJ tours? The MJ article is already 140,000 bytes, so we're trying to reduce the size of the article. Also, a list is more helpful to the readers that may want compare each of the tours. All the the info is in one place, so they won't have to search for each tour to see which had the most number of performances etc. I was asked to comment on this. I do not see a glaring 3b issue, although I do see that argument. However, as mentioned, the MJ article is very long, and the info here is a bit too detailed to warrant going in the main article anyway. So, I'm fine with this as a stand-alone article, at least when the article is in this format. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:14, 21 October 2009 (UTC) Four of the five descriptions of the Jackson 5 tours start with "The Jackson 5 ..." which is a little repetitive and not really needed since this is in its own Jackson 5 section anyway. Fixed. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:44, 18 October 2009 (UTC) Thanks for your comments. Pyrrhus16 20:23, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

The sources look good and image licensing and alt text seems fine. I think there is still room for some visual tweaks. For example, perhaps you could set the "Year" columns to a reasonably small fixed size and center their text. I also don't think the number of references warrants the reduced font size. However, this is not enough to keep me from supporting this nomination. Good work. Goodraise 13:27, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Reduced the column and attempted to center the text. It doesn't appear to be working with the narrower column size, for me at least. Were you asking for this to be done when asking for reduced reference font size? Pyrrhus16 14:13, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

No, I wasn't asking for reduced font size. I was asking for normal font size. The reduced font size currently used in the article is caused by the templates {{reflist}} (a replacement for <references />), {{refbegin}}, and {{refend}}. Goodraise 14:39, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. Done. Pyrrhus16 14:46, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Support Mm40 (talk) 23:27, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Mm40 (talk) 23:27, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Comments Any particular reason for giving the brothers' names in that order? I suggest alphabetizing. Done. "…an interim series of concerts…" what does "interim" mean in this context? Changed to "their Interim concert series in 1978". In the last sentence of the second paragraph, the comma can be taken out. Done. "of 1992 – 1993" the endash should be unspaced. Done. "…an 82-date…" can"-date" be taken out? (also appears in table) Done. "in which Jackson performed for more than 4.5 million fans" can be reworded "attended by more than 4.5 million fans". Also, I think "from around the world" can be removed. Done. "residency" isn't the right word; was he going to live for an extended time in London? Changed to "concert series". "This Is It" has quotes while the other tours don't. Be consistent. Removed quotes. Add a ref for the last sentence of the lead because "This Is It" isn't covered in the table. Done. Why is the Number of performances column centered but others aren't? All columns now centered. In the first entry (The Jackson 5 First National Tour), the dashed date range being October 9 while the text says October 7. Fixed. New York is the state, not the city; fix the link. Done. In the second entry, "the five brothers" is used twice. Replace the second with something else (the quintet, the group, etc.) Done. Why are some locations linked upon first mention (New York, Boston) while others aren't (Japan, Hong Kong). All now linked on their first occurence. "setting a new world record" (for the Bad World Tour), what exactly was the record? Added. For the first link in "See also", I suggest changing "consisted of" to a comma for consistency with the other two links. Done. Remove the last "See also" entry because the same is said in the lead. Done. For the listing of Category:Michael Jackson concert tours, add |* like you would pipe a link the this article lists first. Done. After these are fixed, I'll be happy to support. Mm40 (talk) 20:58, 25 October 2009 (UTC) Thank you for your comments. Pyrrhus16 21:58, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.