Talk:Thomas of Argos

Origin of Thomas of Argos

The sources clearly refer to Greeks and not Albanians. There is no way to verify that Thomas of Argos is the same person as Thomas Bua. Seleukosa (talk) 14:59, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

A question for you: — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.22.56.100 (talk) 04:11, 2 February 2019 (UTC) Can you quote a primary source where we can read that Henry VIII praised his bravery and granted him an annual salary? Thanks in advance.

After my question of 04:11, 2 February 2019, someone with the nickname Resnjari, few hours later, at 12:01, 2 February 2019‎, edited this page adding this:

"Noukios mentions no other name for Thomas of Argos. However, some secondary sources assume that he is the same person with a Thomas Bouas (or Buas) who was arrested by the French and executed in Turin in 1546. [3]"

[3]Pappas Nicholas C. J. STRADIOTI: BALKAN MERCENARIES IN FIFTEENTH AND SIXTEENTH CENTURY ITALY Resnjari, Pappas is a greek scholar and his interestd was the invention of the myth of the greek stradioti. Of course, he was not so much advanced in forging this myth like the contemporary greeks. There were no greek stradioti back in middle ages, but this can be discussed in another place. Just read what Pappas in a moment of hpnesty says:

"Most modern, as well as a good number of early authors have indicated that the stradioti were Albanian. This is true to a certain extent but has to be qualified. A Greek author made a study of the names of stradioti found in the most extensive documentary collection of materials dealing with the stradioti and found that some 80% of the names were of Albanian origin, while the rest were of Greek origin.[20]"

So, he accept the historical fact that most of the modern and early authors have indicated that the stradioti were Albanian. But wait, he has a friend, another greek who did his research and found that there were also Greek stradiots. Second, Resnjari you speak about secondary sources. This secondary sources are: Millar, "The Albanians," pp. 470, 472; idem, Tudor Mercenaries and Auxiliaries 1485-1547 (Charlottesville: University Press of Virginia, 1980), pp. 44, 48, 69, 73, 133, 146, 148-149, 151, 161, 164-165; Apostolos Vakalopoulos, Historia tou Neou Hellenismou, vol. 3 (Thessalonike, 1968), p. 191 Did you verified these "secondary sources" as you call these two respected scholars?

Here in Wikipedia there is a page with the title: Greeks in the United Kingdom I will quote from this page: That set the pattern for Greek settlement over the next two hundred years. Some came as soldiers during the reign of Henry VIII, led by the officers Theodore Luchisi, Antonios Stesinos, and Colonel Thomas of Argos (or Thomas Buas), responsible for the garrisoning of the then-English possession of Calais.[12] So, from this page of Wiki we learn that Thomas of Argos and Thomas Buas are the same person and this person is a Greek. Excuse me, what`s the story here? Thomas of Argos and Thomas Bua are the same person and he was an Albanian, because is an historical fact that Bua family were Albanians. Since here seems there are no Albanians that contribute in Wiki, someone from the authorised persons edit this page and correct this disinformation invented by greeks. There were no greek stradiotiat the service of Henry VIII, not a single Greek. Thanks in advance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.106.209.182 (talk) 17:44, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Nothing has changed after my last post in this page. For example, there is no source to prove this paragraph from the Wikipedia page Stratioti:

Thomas was sent by Henry VIII to Boulogne in 1546, as commander of a battalion of 550 Greeks and was injured in the battle.[31] The King expressed his appreciation to Thomas for his leadership in Boulogne and rewarded him with a good sum of money.

Well, if we really want to find the truth and to clean the place from the forgeries of the greeks, what we have to do is exactly through the British Archives, and since this Thomas was at the service of Henry VIII, we have to search on Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII. First, if you search you will verify that there was not one single Greek stratioti, soldier, mercenary, etc, at the service of Henry VIII. Second, you will find that Albanian stradioti are mentioned many times and are called Albanoy/s, Albanese, Arbanoy, etc. And third and most important, you will read this:

Dasent's A P C., 316. Meeting at Hampton Court, 20 Jan. Present: Great Master, Privy Seal, Great Chamberlain, Admiral, Durham, Gage, Browne, Wingfield, Paget, Petre. Business:—To Sir Thos. Seymour, master of the Ordnance, to deliver to George Browne, master of the Ordnance at Calais, certain bows, spears, guns, &c. (detailed), for the town and castle of Calais, the castle of Guisnes and Bootes bulwark. To Deputy and Council of Calais, that no warrants be addressed to the Master of Ordnance there to deliver munitions to any person privately unless such person will be answerable for the value. To Treasurer of Augmentations, to deliver l,500l. to Sir Ant. Knevet for ordnance and munition for the store in the Tower. To Sir Thos. Seymour, to deliver to Sir Peter Mewtes, for Guernsey, one ton of shot and other ordnance (specified). Letter to Surrey to receive Anthony Stasino and Nic. Crexia, Albanoys captains who served last summer in the North, with 50 horsemen apiece, to serve at Boulogne with 30 cr. a month and wages for their officers and men, and the whole wages which other Albanoys captains under Cavalier Thomaso receive, as soon as they increase their numbers to 100 apiece. Letter in Italian to Cavalier Thomaso, colonel of the Albanoys at Boulogne, to receive them. Warrant to Robt. Legge to pay Paulo de Maryne, captain of the Great Aragousey ship lying at Southampton 184l. 17s. 4d. and 29l. 2s. 8d. (as in No. 80). Letter to the said Treasurer to pay Maryne de Paulo and Francisco de Maryne, captains of the two Aragowsey ships arrested to serve again, portage and wages from the 22nd inst., allowing Maryne de Paulo as much as his fellow, Francisco de Maryne, notwithstanding any other covenant with him.

SOURCE: Henry VIII: January 1546, 16-20 Pages 27-45 https://www.british-history.ac.uk/letters-papers-hen8/vol21/no1/pp27-45

Now, is it possible that someone from the people who are responsible here(not greeks) edit this page and other pages mentioned in my previous posts, Greeks in United Kingdom and Stratioti where these people, Theodore Luchisi, Antonios Stesinos, and Colonel Thomas of Argos (or Thomas Buas)are considered Greeks meanwhile in the primary sources they are called Albanians? Thanks in advance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.106.209.22 (talk) 08:39, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

While the bulk of stradioti rank and file were of Albanian origin from Greece, by the middle of the 16th century there is evidence that many had become Hellenized or even Italianized. The most telling examples of this phenomenon are in the works of Tzanes Koronaios and Manoli Blessi. The former work is a long epic poem in vernacular Greek on the exploits of one of the most famous of stradioti, Merkourios Bouas, in the armies of Venice, France, and the Holy Roman Empire. The author, Koronaios, seems to have been a stradiotto troubadour of Zantiote origin and a companion of Merkourios Bouas. In his poem, which is a paean to Merkourios Bouas, there is a sure and steady indication of the process of Hellenization of the Albanian stradioti. Manoli Blessi's poetic works are in Italian with many words and phrases in colloquial Greek. There are no Albanian words in his poems at all. Hellenization was perhaps well on its way prior to service abroad, since Albanian stradioti had settled in Greek lands for two generations prior to their emigration to Italy. Since many served under Greek commanders and served together with Greek stradioti,the process continued. Another factor in this assimilative process was the stradioti's and their families' active involvement and affiliation with the Greek Orthodox or Uniate Church communities in Naples, Venice and elsewhere. Hellenization thus occurred as a result of common service and church affiliation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C4:6B3C:E800:C57B:E643:98C:7B6B (talk) 18:57, 18 October 2019 (UTC)