Talk:The Jews of Islam

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Books. To participate in the project, please visit its page, where you can join the project and discuss matters related to book articles. To use this banner, please refer to the documentation. To improve this article, please refer to the relevant guideline for the type of work.BooksWikipedia:WikiProject BooksTemplate:WikiProject BooksBook articles

Religion: Interfaith Low‑importance

	Religion portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is within the scope of Interfaith work group, a work group which is currently considered to be inactive.

Judaism Low‑importance

	Judaism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Judaism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Judaism-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JudaismWikipedia:WikiProject JudaismTemplate:WikiProject JudaismJudaism articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

"Examples of Jewish life in the Islamic world" section[edit]

This section has a particular focus on Iran. This is not the place to go enter this details. The situation in Iran was worst than elsewhere. This section should be moved to persian jews article. --Aminz 04:24, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It was removed. --Aminz 01:38, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is not an article on the topic "The Jews of Islam" , it is about the book "The Jews of Islam" by Bernard Lewis and the book deals extensively with the treatment and experiences of the Jews in the Middle East and particularly in Iran , where there was a fair amount of primary source research material available to Bernad Lewis. Thus I have restored the content.--CltFn 03:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lewis says lots of things there on how Jews were treated in different places in different times. And there is much more to what Lewis says. One should not take a particular place (Iran) and time since that would be unneutral. Summerizing the book into what a Jewish traveler J. J. Benjamin, who traveled in Iran at mid-century said is unfair. Have you read the book? --Aminz 03:09, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But despite what you may feel, that in fact is the title of the book, and you can't impose your POV on the author. --Brat32 03:15, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And instead of deleting sections, you ought to develop the article with more material from the book that you have researched. And yes I have read the book and I own it--CltFn 03:16, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We have the Dhimmi article that is very much based on this book actually. This article is about the book itself. The book doesn't have its focus on Iran for sure. I don't see how that quote is a representative of what the book says. --Aminz 03:19, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the book itself. That quote section is enough I think. --Aminz 03:21, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As I said above , then add more material , no one is stopping you from doing so , this is what we do in Wikipedia , we develop articles into fully fledged comprehensive encyclopedic articles.--CltFn 03:23, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please provide page number for the content of the section in the first place. --Aminz 03:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

done --CltFn 04:00, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. CltFn, don't you think these material should go to the Persian Jews article? Lewis talk about different times and different places. These details are good for those articles. You can include the name of those articles in the "See Also" section. --Aminz 04:16, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You could certainly also add this material to the Persian Jews article, go for it. I will take a look at it when I have some time , as I am busy on all kinds of projects at the moment.--CltFn 04:25, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

CltFn, the title of the section is "Examples of Jewish life in the Islamic world" and you have found one of the worst possible cases in time and place and have putted there in the article. Have you read page 6-7 of the very same book. Comparing one's worst with another's best is misleading and is what polemics do. I am going to take that out. This article is about the book itself and not about its content in this detail. A large part of the article is dedicated to a particular POV. And this is what that traveller said. Please read those pages again. Lewis doesn't say this is the summary of "Jewish life in the Islamic world" or even in Iran. --Aminz 04:34, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well you are free to balance it by adding whatever material you have on the book. Blanking out sections because you feel it presents too narrow a perspective is not the way to go, what needs to be done in such a case would be to broaden the article with more material. SO roll up your sleeves , read the book in detail and develop the article. This article is only in its early stages and a lot more will be added in due time to this topic.--CltFn 05:00, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am going to ask an admin to join us here. We have other articles for further details. --Aminz 05:04, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is a tertiary source[edit]

Aminz asked me to look at this page and give an opinion. Briefly, on Wikipedia secondary sources are preferred to primary sources. If we were writing about Jewish life in Muslim countries, this book would be an important secondary source. In an article about the book, the book itself is a primary source. The sources for this page should mostly be reviews of and reports about the book. This article should summarize what reliable sources have written about the book. It should not be a recapitulation of selected sections. We should not selectively mine quotes from the book. The article should not consist almost entirely of quotes from the book. If there are not enough secondary sources to let us write an article, then this should not be a stand-alone article, but Lewis is a prominent author. I'm sure there are book reviews in the Times and elsewhere, both favorable and unfavorable. There may be academic work online, like lecture notes or commentary, discussing Lewis' work, or a transcript of his interview on CSPAN's Booknotes program. Those would be solid sources for this article.

In no circumstances should this page become a POV fork of Dhimmi, or Persian Jews, or anything else. See Wikipedia:Reliable sources Wikipedia:No original research. Tom Harrison ^Talk 13:07, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Huge Persian Jews Section[edit]

There is no need to quote such a huge section of the book. This is not wikibooks after all. BhaiSaab ^talk 03:06, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree , there is a need , the need to add material to this article. It is informative and encyclopedic and makes this article interesting. What are your motives for continually whitewashing articles?--CltFn 03:51, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

CltFn, please have a look at Tom's comment above. --Aminz 04:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I did , and I do not see that its premise is valid. --CltFn 04:39, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The title of the book[edit]

The title of the book doesn't make sense - "Jews of Islam". Does the title suggest "Jewish converts to Islam"? --Fantastic4boy 02:19, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't Anybody Find This Text Inaccurate & Essentially Prejudiced??[edit]

Doesn't anybody find Bernard Lewis's lumping together of Arab behavior racist and highly prejudiced - in particular because he had access to source material he never used? It is an extraordinary incomplete text on the subject. Didn't anybody ever read this book? I read this when I was a teenager; it is highly biased... It is like many texts that came out of the 1950's meant to be rewritten - especially to save humanity from its narrow-minded and shallow self. Stevenmitchell 12:00, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In English what's the transliteration and the translation of the Hebrew on the title page[edit]

In English what is the a) transliteration and the b) translation of the Hebrew?... on the
title page
at
http://books.google.com/books?id=W0EbKFRxrT4C
1.
Click on...
Preview this book

2.
Then click on...
more
after clicking on...
Contents

3.
Enlarge with the button indicated with the plus sign... +

http://books.google.com/books?id=W0EbKFRxrT4C

the zak 18:26, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:TheJewsOfIslam.jpg[edit]

Image:TheJewsOfIslam.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:37, 12 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]