Talk:Tanbur

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Comments[edit]

The original version of this talk page was moved to Talk:Tanbur (Persian), so check there for additional relevant content. Right now, tanbur is a disambiguation page. Given the confusion surrounding the term I think even the disambig. page needs (or will need) its own talk page. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 03:36, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am thinking perhaps this should be a set index article rather than a disambig page. Right now I don't think it's an issue, but I can imagine wanting to add at least a little more information to this article. In such case I think it would work better as a set index article. (At this point, all this would involve is removing the "{{disambig}}" tag and adding categories). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 15:32, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also note that Tanbur/Temp exists. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 15:32, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've gone ahead and removed {{disambig}}. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 16:58, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

69.201.146.55 (talk · contribs) removed the list of similar instruments. These are straight out of the "Tanbur" entry in Grove. Just so there's no confusion, I've cited each instrument, though I personally think this looks sloppy (as I've already provided citations for every sentence in this article). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:31, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I moved Tanbur/Temp to Tembûr. Tanbur (Persian) now redirects to Tanbur. See Talk:Tanbur (Persian)#Improvement, nomenclature etc. for details. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:10, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Thanks for posting this article. I had previously written the article about the Turkish tanbur and knew back then that there was need for a root-article which would give access to different instruments sharing this common name. Yet I do think a common effort should be put into rearranging the root-article, for a similarity in name, at least in this geography, means little. One shouldn't forget that derivatives of the word "tanbur" may also refer to percussion instruments and that a better genealogy should be presented on this page for each of the instruments. Notice that tambura, the Persian tanbur and many other instruments are carved out of a single (or at most, double) piece of wood; whereas the Turkish tanbur (which was most likely descending from a Byzantine court instrument) is built more to the resemblance of an oud, and its closest common ancestor with other long-necked lutes might be quite ancient. Most of the other instruments with a similar name resemble in their building and playing style the saz family. I wonder whether, thanks only to the community of name, taking for granted their kinship is justified. As a musician, I would be inclined to think that this might be linguistic confusion. The saz family, the Persian tambur etc. are apparently akin in their sonority; yet the Turkish tanbur has a sound closer to that of, say, an oud or a mediæval lute. I tend to think that West-European sources pay little attention to these differences, and while fervently distinguishing an English horn from an hautbois, they put in the same category many instruments "from elsewhere", which is a token of indifference to their particularities and of the unilateralism of their musical ear. Conclusion: I invite you, and others who are willing to work, to construe a more precise description of what the word designates and what it does not designate. Thank you. --Ekindedeoglu (talk) 14:55, 16 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And yes, one more thing: I do not think that we could say the tanbur is an "art variant" of the saz family. Historical evidence makes this layman-thesis very unlikely. It's as if you said of a concert lute that it was an "art variant of the Spanish guitar". Let's think of a better way to put it. --Ekindedeoglu (talk) 15:02, 16 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There was a rather lengthy content dispute concerning this article (along the lines of "the tanbur is Persian, therefore there are no other tanburs." "No it's Turkish" etc. etc. - see Talk:Tanbur (Persian) if you are really curious). I created this root article, using Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians (the best source that was available to me), as a means of settling the matter. My primary concern was to resolve this dispute, so there is certainly more work to do (actually this started out as a sort of disambiguation page and as such it retains a rather skeletal format). I do wish to point out that some of what you mention contradicts Grove (or isn't mentioned in Grove) and so we would need additional sources for this. Grove could very well be wrong about the topic; on the other hand, judging from one of the author's names, I'm not sure that it entirely has a Western bias. (If Grove does contain mistakes, I personally wouldn't go so far as to call it a layman's analysis.) Thanks! -- Gyrofrog (talk) 16:39, 16 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Removed text[edit]

This series of edits added some text, minus citations, to the "Origins" section, along with an external link to the "References" section. The external link doesn't really corroborate the new information so I have removed the text. Furthermore I am not sure the external link would serve as a reliable source so I have instead moved it to "External links". -- Gyrofrog (talk) 07:45, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge to Tambura[edit]

Someone had proposed merging this article to Tambura. I disagree with this, because the tambura article has already been tagged for splitting (to which of these would we merge?) and "tanbur" and "tambura" can refer to dissimilar instruments. The tanbur page already makes this disambiguation. I have gone ahead and removed the merge tags from both articles. Thanks, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 17:54, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tanbur is a Semitic Akkadian instrument not Persian nor Turkish.[edit]

Tanburu was invented during the Akkadian period in mesopotamia and it was named tanburu in Semitic Akkadian and Pantur in Sumerian,it is connected with Semito-Egyptian root NBR=to make sound as in Arabic nabra=musical sound and Egyptian nbr=music instrument.

Humanbyrace (talk) 20:52, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note that one sentence does explain, "Lutes have been present in Mesopotamia since the Akkadian era, or the third millennium BCE." This is based on the attributed sources. Thanks, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:34, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Tembûr[edit]

Tembûr and Tanbur are obviously the same. They must be merged. Also see Talk:Tembûr. Thanks--Taranet (talk) 01:19, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

done--Taranet (talk) 10:05, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Content forking[edit]

Most of the articles listed in Tambura (such as Tanpura (instrument), Tanbur, Tambur) are the same instrument in different dialects, and it's a great wp:Content forking.--Taranet (talk) 10:05, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Reading [1] and [2] shows that tanburs are different instruments from same family (and some types are more similar to some Setars and Dutars than other tanburs). They are not the same instrument but do have the same name (although in differnet dialects the names change as tempur, tampur, etc). So I still think that we should have one basic article to avoid Content forking (for explaning their origine and types), then we can have separate articles for different country-related articles. The atlasofpluckedinstruments.com website has classifed them based on countries. We can do the same and have Turkish tanbur, Uzbak tanbur, etc.) because in my opinion writing them with different letters such az tambur, tanbür, tanbura won't help confusing.--Taranet (talk) 16:43, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Harp or Pandura ?[edit]

File:Sumerian pandura.png is clearly from [3] although it's interesting that it is called there a harp. Your rename is clearly original research. I note that 3 of the files you uploaded there have been deleted, one of them as recently as the end of November. Dougweller (talk) 17:04, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Noting that it's now been deleted. You seem to be being less than truthful in licensing the images you are uploading. Dougweller (talk) 05:37, 4 January 2014 (UTC)Samizambak (talk) 09:13, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Real Sumerian harp[edit]

Bandura[edit]

There is no denying that the word “kobza” comes from Asia. Numerous Turkic languages have the words kobyz, kopuz, kobuz, kobas, qobuz, qobyz, and many others. The etymology of the word “bandura” is equally transparent. It probably came into Ukrainian from Polish because Western and Southern Europe know many instruments with a similar name; one need only mention the English bandore (more about it later), the Spanish bandurria or the Italian pandura or pandora. These can be traced to the Greek πανδ ω´ρα, which in turn can be connected to the Old Persian tanbūr – the very word used by Ibn Fadlān. This word, in turn, is related to Sumerian pantur/pantur which means little bow.Samizambak (talk) 15:58, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Self-published paper, not cited by any academic sources. Fails WP:RS which you really should read rather than keep posting such stuff to talk pages. Dougweller (talk) 18:42, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Mandora[edit]

Bandurria[edit]

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandurria_(instrumento_musical)Samizambak (talk) 16:18, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Importance changed to mid[edit]

I took it upon myself to change the WikiProject Musical Instruments importance to mid. If anyone wishes to discuss, I have good reasons. Simply put, this is a family of instruments with 5000+ years of history, covering a large region and multiple countries. Based on that, I claim that this is a notable instrument family. The criteria for mid importance is "Article is only notable within its particular field or subject and has achieved notability in a particular place or area." I am not claiming worldwide notability for the family, but notability in a particular place (a broad geographic region that includes the Balkans, India, Iraqi Kurdistan, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Turkey, Tajikestan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan).Jacqke (talk) 18:58, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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