Talk:Sudanese Greeks

Sudanese Greeks was nominated as a History good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (January 23, 2022). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

Greece Mid‑importance

	Greece portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Greece, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Greece on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GreeceWikipedia:WikiProject GreeceTemplate:WikiProject GreeceGreek articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Africa: Sudan Low‑importance

	Africa portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Africa, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Africa on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AfricaWikipedia:WikiProject AfricaTemplate:WikiProject AfricaAfrica articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Sudan (assessed as Mid-importance).

Great job![edit]

I really don't understand why this article is only assessed as Start-Class. Based on my knowledge of the life of some of the remaining Greeks in Sudan, it is extremely well written, researched and documented. It is hard to imagine, how it could be improved, and I am sure, many Greeks with an interest in their community in Africa are also very impressed by it. - The careful research about early photographs from the 1880s also helped my to illustrate and complement my article on Photography of Sudan. - Thanks, @User:RomanDeckert! Munfarid1 15:01, 28 November 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Munfarid1 (talk • contribs) [reply]

After thorough revision and editing by the steward, I have just checked all parameters for B class and changed the class to B. Munfarid1 (talk) 10:32, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Drive-by comments for GA review[edit]

I've had a quick look at this interesting article which is not far off GA standard. I would say, however, that there is a serious problem with images which will need to be addressed ahead of any GA review. There are way too many pictures in this article, and the relevance of many of them to a reader is pretty dubious. Please do take some time to read MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE ("Images must be significant and relevant in the topic's context, not primarily decorative.") in particular. —Brigade Piron (talk) 11:27, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Greeks in Sudan/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Shushugah (talk · contribs) 19:11, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

GA progress bar[edit]

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()

3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()

Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

General comments[edit]

Avoid WP:WEASEL words, none of the usages of 'apparently' are necessary

Avoid phrases like "used slaves" which can be replaced with more humanizing language like 'relied on/benefited from slaved labour'.

I am concerned about the overlap/framing of Greeks in South Sudan, particularly for the historic periods where a distinction between Sudan and South Sudan is not meaningful in either articles. That said, linking to that article in Greeks in Sudan#See also would make sense.

Generally the prose,references are of good quality.

Excessive dictionary like wiki links =[edit]

A lot of the Wikilinks are to random definitions of words instead of relevant/related concepts, for example independence is linked, but no attempt is made to share a wiki link to the specific 1956 independence, which could be served with Republic of the Sudan (1956–1969).

Yet terms like power, ancient, cultural, identity are all wiki linked to generic definitions. When I expected local to be a similar example, I instead got an WP:EASTER EGG to Old Nubian language. Where it links to Sharia law, you could also link to the more specific/relevant examples of Sudan like Application_of_Sharia_by_country#Sudan.

Layout[edit]

The section Independent Sudan (since 1956) could be a level 3 section (and possibly renamed to simply Independence, of the same hierarchy as Modern times (Times should be lower case in Modern times).

Gallery section should not a section of its own, as it relates to only thing, the cemeteries and nothing mentioned in the article. See my image feedback below, but with regards to layouts, the section title is much too long, and it would benefit from being a level 4 section underneath Modern history/Independence

Images[edit]

Images are all free of copyright issues, however not all images are relevant or adequately displayed. For example the excessive number of detailed cemetery photos are included, without any explanation of their relevance, or if these people listed by name are notable or not. A short paragraph should be added to explain the history of the cemetery, with the overarching photo use, rather than undue individual images.

Additionally, some photos like File:KontomichlosStreet KhartoumSudan RomanDeckert23022015.jpg and File:WallPicture HellenicCommunity KhartoumSudan RomanDeckert23022015.jpg don't serve a very clear addition to the text or have encyclopedic tone. An external Commons link could be added in the external section with {{sisterlinks|Commons=Category:Greek diaspora in Sudan}}

I hope this review was useful and looking forward to working with you. ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 19:11, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Catlemur[edit]

The way the names of the people in the Greek section of the Christian cemetery in Khartoum are displayed is inconsistent. Some are displayed in Greek while other names are transliterated, others are somewhere in-between. For example ΣΟUΓΑ ΡΕΒΙΝΘΗ contains a U which is not a Greek letter, moreover the first name is odd; is it ΣΟΥΛΑ by any chance? MARIANH E. ZOΓPAΦOY likewise contains an English R. ΔΙΜΗΤΡΙΟΣ should be ΔΗΜΗΤΡΙΟΣ.

Following the suppression of the 1944 Greek naval mutiny, the British imprisoned the participants in a number of concentration camps across northern Africa, one of which was located in Sudan. This needs to be mentioned in the article.--Catlemur (talk) 20:15, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Failing this GA for now[edit]

As no edits have been made since my review along with Catlemur's additional feedback, I am failing this GA. If someone wants to open up a nomination, and have made substantial changes since, they are welcome to ping me for a 2nd review. ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 02:12, 23 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]