Talk:List of most expensive cities for expatriate employees

Sydney

Why suddenly Sydney can become SO CHEAP??? ... Falling from rank 15 (in 2008) to 66 (in 2009), and it is below Taipei now. C'mon, I've been to Taipei before, and I know how (relatively) cheap the cost of living in Taipei is. Taipei should be roughly the same as in Kuala Lumpur. And I personally believe also that Sydney should not be that cheap, at least Sydney should be relatively the same as Western European countries (France, Spain or the Netherlands). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chongkian (talk • contribs) 19:03, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

How is affordability bad? Altormainstream (talk) 08:24, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Mercer's 2009 survey "GLOBAL CHART" added

Please, sections of each separate Continent require updating. Thanks.

2007 version is now out

As of June 18, 2007 there is a new version: http://www.mercerhr.com/costofliving/

This article is now out-of-date

The Economist Group survey recently released the 2006 Most Expensive Cities list, with Oslo leading the pack over Tokyo. I couldn't get the full list, but I am putting the ones that I got off of the CNN Money article and am attempting to wikify the article. If anyone could apply the rest of the list by finding the source that would be really good.--Offkilter 04:57, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Why this survey?

There was a survey that came out today, totally on cable news, which showed Moscow as the most expensive. Shouldn't this survey be shown instead or at least as well as this present one? -Amit, 06/26/06

• I saw that survey and updated the site just now.--206.190.139.254 22:57, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Is this a junk statistic?

This survey was so misleading to the general public. It's a counter-intuitive definition of cost of living. I think it has to do with setting up wealthy executives in the manner to which they are accustomed. Security and luxury space are scarce in Moscow, but I think Bagdad should win if this is the measure. I'm pretty sure the average Muscovite household is still living on $10k a year and living in a $40k apartment, which would make it the 100th most expensive city. It's a shame The Media reported the soundbite and ignored the reality.

According to this wikipedia article Moscow is the most expensive city in the world that data appears to come from Mercer Consulting and according to CNNMoney.com - In Moscow, the apartment will run you US$3,000, the coffee US$5.27, the paper US$3.40, and the burger with fries $3.87. Yet to my confusion according to http://www.realestate.ru/eng/new.aspx?id=4387 Average per capita income at 28,546 rubles in Moscow in April (2006) Which equals roughly 1,060.05 USD which means an average apartment needs 3 family to pay the rent and they get 8 cups of coffee and 36 burgers and fries for the month. I have not been able to prove it yet but I think this is ex-pat and overseas corporate pricing.--Transit1 01:52, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure how they've calculated their figures, but I've recently moved from Chicago to Boston, and there is no way in hell that Boston is cheaper. Apartment rent here is 40 to 80 percent higher, and other necessities cost roughly the same.--Mr. A. (talk) 19:40, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I think it is made to show cost for visiting the place, that is, you buy your stuff and central locations and at "tourist traps", where as a native goes to the "right" place to buy their stuff. would that make sense? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.55.110.220 (talk) 10:40, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

51-55 Still missing

an anon IP added from 56 down, but the article still lacks the entries between 50 and 56. Does anyone have the data one these please GameKeeper 22:47, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

better pictures

someone should put better pictures for moscow, st.petersburg, and london, there is more but I can't think of any - anon

And São Paulo too, please.. The city is fu%$ng ugly, but there´s a lot of nice pictures and places. And Praça da Sé definitely isn´t one of these places.... - anon 2 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.13.7.230 (talk) 01:21, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

China

Why "People's Republic of China"? It's China - PRoC is just the official name. Most countries have one, but they should not be used in this way. Or, at least, they should be used throughout the article. Almost Anonymous 11:57, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Because the Republic of China in Taiwan considers itself "China" as well. It's like the situation in Germany before the fall of the Berlin Wall and reunification: You couldn't just say "Germany," you had to specify the Federal Republic of Germany (a.k.a. West Germany) or the German Democratic Republic (a.k.a. East Germany). --Mr. A. (talk) 19:38, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Actually, if you really know & understand the political situation on each side of the Taiwan strait, you will know that this is a very long disputed problems. If you say PRC is China, then the pro-reunification KMT-ruled Taiwan (who is in favor of Chinese reunification) also says they are actually the "real original" China, established in East Asia by Sun Yat-Sen in 1912 after the fall of Qing Dynasty, BUT their China is the Republic of China (ROC), not the PRC (which was established by Mao Zedong in 1949). Somehow, it has been universally agreed (and also in United Nations) that there is only one China at a time in this world, and the current holder for that China is PRC. Any country who wanna establish formal relation with a China, must drop the other China's relation. (If wanna recognize PRC, then drop ROC. If wanna recognize ROC, then drop PRC). Some more neutral decision is by using the result of the 1992 Consensus in Hong Kong by ARATS & SEF is that the there is still only one China in this world, but the term of how they define China may be different. PRC claim that Taiwan is part of their China, and ROC claim that Mainland China is part of their China. The really most neutral tone for all of this claim claim thingy is by using only their geographical term, in which we need to divide the area into 4 regions, which are Mainland China, Hong Kong, Macau & Taiwan. It has no political term for this area. Although AGAIN, in this context (try to exclude Hong Kong & Macau) we say Mainland China means it doesn't include Taiwan. So maybe when we say "China", it should include Taiwan. For the pro-independent DPP party in Taiwan, for sure they will reject this naming also, since they say 'China' name is exclusively only for Mainland China, Hong Kong & Macau. (#_#) ... Fuuhh, now I'm getting a big HEADACHE, akh T_T ... Anyone can help me on how to be the most neutral for the 1.3 billion people in the mainland and 23 million in the island. Chongkian (talk) 19:28, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

HOUSTON!?

Houston is not expensive at all. Dallas has a higher cost of living. Who decided on these being the most expensive cities? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DDavis092 (talk • contribs) 00:49, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

Houston does have a very low cost of living, but has many, many expatriates. I wouldn't be surprised if they even had more than Chicago. Also, most of the expats in Houston are in the oil industry so they might spend more on housing, etc. while in Houston. Houston has moved down recently on the list. At the same time, 6 of 7 U.S. cities above it on the list moved up (became relatively more expensive). Ufwuct 02:11, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Mercer rankings are misleading. They only apply to those making a million a year living and living and elite lifestyle. To the locals of the cities and to everyone making less than a million a year this list means nothing. Hanoi is not more expensive than San Fransisco! Beijing is not more expensive than Paris! I think its absolutely crazy that these mercer rankings have been the barometer and the authority of cost of living of cities. Anyone that actually takes the time to look at them should know they are crap!

2005 Data

How can the March 2005 data have a tie with two cities at number 1 and than have a number 2 listed?

Washington, USA

Shouldnt this be Washington DC?

Needs updating

This article needs to be updated, especially with the stats after #50. I can't find past #50 on the site but it should be there since it says that the Paraguayan city comes in last again. I also added a top 3 division by continent/region, modelled after List of countries by Human Development Index. Here are some issues:

• Istanbul--in a country that is sometimes (though less and less) considered Middle Eastern, although Istanbul is geographically located in Europe. (Similar issue with Moscow in Russia.) This would involve replaced the 3rd place in the Middle East with Abu Dhabi.
• Should sections remain Middle East & North Africa and Sub-Saharan Africa. Removing "& North Africa" wouldnt change the top 3, but making a whole Africa section would add Algiers to the 3rd place.

Any comments? --Shamir1 11:09, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Also, the satellite photo needs to be updated as Douala is marked in the wrong part of Africa. 83.52.251.82 (talk) 21:07, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Tehran deletion

On the page of most expensive cities, I deleted Singapore inadvertently. But I think that's unfair to remove Tehran too. Tehran is 74th too and one of the most important cities in the Middle East, so I think it would be better to let it remain. --Kourosh ziabari

(talk) 12:58, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

The pictures represent the top 40 expensive cities in order from 1 to 40 according to Mercer's survey (which is skewed towards the expenses of the rich). Most cities outside the top 40 (e.g. Hamburg, Los Angeles, New Delhi, Jakarta, etc.) are clearly important cities as well. In fact, being high in this list has no relationship with the importance of a city, however you would define that. It doesn't even correlate with the desirability to live there (Moscow likely isn't the greatest place to live). I stopped adding pictures at 40, as that number of thumbnails approximately fits next to the current text. There's just no room and it wouldn't make much sense to depict all cities that happen to be part of the survey. Cheers, Afasmit (talk) 22:20, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

(talk) 23:27, 05 March 2014 (EST) I think Tehran should be deleted because in the provided reference, there was no name of Tehran at all!

Reason for page move?

Was there a reason the page was moved from "List of most expensive cities for expatriate employees" to "List of most expensive cities"? The Mercer, EIU, and ECA International surveys all specifically state that it is for expatriates (hence not taking into account costs such as housing). The current name of the page (List of most expensive cities) would imply that the list is for natives of each city, which it's not. -Multivariable (talk) 23:36, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I want to know why this was changed too. Do you want to change it back, Multivariable? ^ethansmith | _{talk to me.} 22:09, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

If nobody has any objections, I'm going to move the page back to its original name. -Multivariable (talk) 00:40, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Shanghai,Beijing are among the most expensive cities in the world? LOL!

Do you know How much tuition fee you gonna pay if you enroll in a university in Shanghai or Beijing?the answer is mere 5000 yuan,convert to dollars,that is around 800 dollars.Then how much is the tuition fee you gonna pay if you enroll in a university of USA?that's around 5,000 dollars for state university only,private university is much higher.Why Shanghai and Beijing are listed on the top expensive cities in the world? I do not think so.219.151.147.143 (talk) 03:43, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

The surveys don't account for tuition costs. They really only factor in how much it is to live there for people who work outside of their home country. If you find a reputable source that lists cities by their tuition costs, then feel free to put that information in the article. ^ethansmith | _{talk to me.} 11:02, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

unless I could see the data from these surveys I have a hard time believing any of them. Those which actually published their data seem to use made-up prices as the prices they often list (like the recent businessweek one) are created from pure fantasy.--Crossmr (talk) 02:15, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Um... Expatriates from where?

The surveys may not account for tuition costs, but the above poster actually makes an excellent point. Never mind tuition. Call it rent, call it groceries, call it bus fare or how much it costs to fill up your car, or how much it costs to buy a pair of jeans. Whatever you call it, it comes down to purchasing power parity. All you have to do is look at [map] to see that the list of cities does not match up with the PPP - and that something is fishy here.

Now, as an American, making US dollars, I can say from direct personal experience that Tokyo is a relatively affordable city. A latte at Starbucks costs me about 500 yen, which, a few years ago was less than $5, and is now closer to $6. Similar comparisons can be made for most things. 100,000 yen in rent each month works out to roughly $1000, give or take the fluctuations in the exchange rate; a pair of jeans is the equivalent of roughly $30 if you shop somewhere reasonable like Uniqlo, and a bowl of soba at the cheap hole-in-the-wall at the train station can be as cheap as 300 yen, only a little more than a slice of pizza or a bagel with a shmear in New York. Basically the same goes for Tel Aviv - at 3 shekels to the dollar, you can get a falafel sandwich for 12-15 shekelim, or four to five dollars: cheaper, in fact, than in New York.

Compare this to London, where a latte that would cost, let's say, US$5.00 in New York costs not two pounds fifty, or three pounds, but a full whopping five quid. A few years ago, that was nine or ten dollars, though I see now it's closer to $7.69. Again, from personal experience of having lived there, I can promise that whether you're talking about a carton of milk, a dinner out, a ride on the Tube, or just about any other good or service, the same applies. Prices are basically the same, but with the currency symbol switched - so, anywhere from 130% to 200% of the NY price, depending on the exchange rate.

Consider the reverse situation. Suppose you're coming from Tokyo, Moscow, Geneva, or one of those other top-on-the-list cities. Is New York going to be expensive? I think not. You're going to come and wave your pounds or euros around and buy whatever the hell you want, much like an American might do in Hanoi or Bangkok, where, so I'm told, one can live on literally dollars a day.

I have never myself been to China, but I have heard from friends who have that Beijing and Shanghai are super cheap compared to Japan, the UK, or US. How much does a custom tailored suit cost in the US? A thousand bucks? Probably a thousand pounds in London, though I haven't looked. You can get one for the equivalent of US$100 in Beijing. And the previous poster's comment about tuition is very telling. It's not just about tuition. How much is a bicycle in Beijing? How much is a bowl of noodles? I find it extremely hard to believe that anywhere in China is more expensive than Oslo, Paris, New York, and London.

All of this makes me awfully curious as to what criteria are used to calculate this chart, and where these hypothetical expats are coming from. ... I don't necessarily expect anyone here to have a direct answer; I'm just expressing my suspicions and confusion. Cheers. LordAmeth (talk) 23:27, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Another index

Here i got another index, i find it more trustfull http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings_current.jsp —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.205.45.193 (talk) 22:17, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Where is New Zealand? Auckland? Wellington? Whoever made these up has a map with the South-West Pacific missing. Zdjrobinson (talk) 12:21, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

It is not credible that no New Zealand city would appear anywhere on these lists if they were at all reliable.

Copyright

Publishing Mercer's list here in its entirety, without explicit permission, is a violation of copyright. Mercer does, however, give permission to journalists, and by extension to us, to list the top 10 and bottom 10 cities in a table. So I'm going to cut the list down to the top 10; anyone with access to the full (2012) report who wants to add the bottom 10 to the article can do so. DoctorKubla (talk) 11:40, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Criticism: US Centrism and USD

I notice that all these surveys are done from a US perspective, presuming that the employee is paid in USD. Changes in USD which do not affect people from other countries will be disproportionately influencing these rankings. Weewaterasia (talk) 21:29, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:List of most expensive cities for expatriate employees/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Needs to updated however you guys can do that, Luanda doesn't even feature on this list, here's a link from a 2007 study. http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/4011 Another few 2009 http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/06/0615_most_expensive_cities/2.htm http://www.sharonlingham.com/luanda-most-expensive-city-in-the-world http://www.hotelandrestaurant.co.za/new_site/content/tourism/singlepage.asp?id=147 Gunbelt (talk) 14:50, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Last edited at 14:50, 9 July 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 22:15, 29 April 2016 (UTC)