Talk:Gugark pogrom

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This article was nominated for deletion on 3 May 2021. The result of the discussion was speedy keep.

This article was nominated for deletion on 20 December 2021. The result of the discussion was keep.

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Thomas de Waal on 1988 events[edit]

I think Thomas de Waal's writings in his famous book "Black Garden" (page 62-63) about those events based on Arif Yunus can be used as a reference:

"Armenia in 1988 had been far more chaotic and violent, and dozens of Azerbaijanis had died in a savage few weeks at the end of November and the beginning of December. In painstaking research carried out over two years with Azerbaijani refugees, Arif Yunusov compiled lists of the dead and injured. The overwhelming majority of the casualties were from 1988. Yunusov concluded that 127 Azerbaijanis had been murdered by Armenians in this time, generally beaten, burned, or killed. In the most horrific incident—which has still to be fully re-searched—twelve Azerbaijanis from the village of Vartan in northeastern Armenia were burned to death in November 1988. Yunusov’s total Azerbaijani death toll is 216; among that number he includes those who froze to death as they walked into Azerbaijan, committed suicide, died subsequently in Azerbaijani hospitals, or were still missing three years later."

Apollo (Helius Olympian) 22:44, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot. I will look at it when I've got some free time. --► Sincerely: Sola Virum 10:22, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

War crimes?[edit]

Not a war zone and as infobox states local Armenians and Armenian refuges from Azerbaijan involved. Contradicts to the article itself. --Addictedtohistory (talk) 08:10, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:JDLI. War crimes don't need to happen in a warzone and don't need to be committed by soldiers to be a war crime, as defined by Encyclopædia Britannica. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 08:20, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand your logic. You replaced Nagorno-Karabkh conflict with Nagorno-karabakh war in infobox, even though war (not conflict) started in 1992, added Persecution of Azerbaijanis during the First Nagorno-Karabakh war and argue that War crimes don't need to happen in a warzone, therefore it constitutes a war crime. Correct? --Addictedtohistory (talk) 08:47, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

First Nagorno-Karabakh war started in 1988 with guerilla warfare and evolved into a full-scale war in 1992. Guerilla warfare is still a war and is part of the First Nagorno-Karabakh war. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 08:49, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Armenian war crimes category can be argued, but, there is nothing wrong with the Persecution of Azerbaijanis during the First Nagorno-Karabakh war category. The pogroms happened during the war (since war started on 20 February 1988 as First Nagorno-Karabakh War article clearly states) and they were directly related to the war. -Śαǿturα^💬 09:00, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

User:CuriousGolden make up you mind. You connect the events to the war, even though it was not a war zone, then argue that its a war crime. guerilla warfare in 88 was in Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast of Soviet Union, not in Gugark Armenian SSR. Addictedtohistory (talk) 09:22, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And guerilla warfare was the early stage of Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, before it escalated to a war. Events might be linked to the conflict, but it has no relation to war. Neither guerilla, nor any kind of war was waged on territory in question. Addictedtohistory (talk) 09:25, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Event doesn't need to happen inside the warzone to be a war crime. See 2020 Ganja missile attacks & 2020 Barda missile attacks to know that. Interestingly, though less relevant, the category "Azerbaijani war crimes" includes articles that describe events in the early 1900s when war crimes hadn't even been a thing. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 09:44, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:JDLI. You've recently been involved in denialism of tragedies committed by the Armenian people. Avoid doing that from now on --► Sincerely: Sola Virum 10:21, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NPA Addictedtohistory (talk) 12:38, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Read its definition and do not misuse the guidelines. --► Sincerely: Sola Virum 12:53, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence Addictedtohistory (talk) 12:59, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your edit history is enough evidence. --► Sincerely: Sola Virum 14:23, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know if it helps resolving this edit war, but the war crimes article has a good definition. - Kevo327 (talk) 10:41, 21 December 2020 (UTC) This event didn't involve armed forces, happened outside of a war zone, and interpreting Britannica (which says "war crime has been difficult to define with precision") is WP:OR. Given that 3/4 of the users wanting to call it a war crime are now blocked or banned, perhaps the remaining user should find an international body that has ruled it as a war crime before continuing to add the category. --Steverci (talk) 04:04, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

PROPAGANDA[edit]

This whole article is propaganda. What a SHAME Wikipedia ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.158.152.167 (talk) 11:56, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pogrom?[edit]

The article says Azerbaijanis use the term massacre for this. I don't see any of the English sources in the references using the term pogrom. So I am wondering why the article title uses that term? RaffiKojian (talk) 14:33, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]