Talk:Dilek Öcalan

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Nationality of Kurds in Turkey[edit]

As this is a recurring theme, I'd like to gather info about it here. We had a discussion about it here I link to it. To cite the Turkish Nationality Law for Kurds, is I guess not the best way to make a point. I guess Redman19 actually means the citizenship law of 2009 like it is mentioned in the English wikipedia? I mention the Turkish citizenship but prefer to call the nationality of Kurds Kurdish. Kurds often highlight their Kurdish nationality like Dilek Öcalan does. I guess mentioning the citizenship as Turkish and the nationality as Kurdish is a fair compromise.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 09:12, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Don't be ridiculous, if you are American of a certain ethnicity you are still American by nationality, even by name, same thing applies here also, I guess we should consider voting. This woman is a member of a Turkish politicial party, there is a legal relationship between her (individual) and the state (Turkey). Redman19 (talk) 10:15, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Secondly the British example you used isn't correct when compared to the Turkish one, it simply ignores the fact that a Kurdish nationality is non existent in Turkey. You can't make something up that isn't recognized or can't be traced back to the Turkish Constitution. This really isn't a fair compromise, not at all. Kind regards, Redman19 (talk) 10:43, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The American comparison doesn't apply here. Chinese-Americans are American people who are descended from Chinese people. Kurds in Turkey are not only descended from Kurds, they are Kurds. We're certainly not bound by the Turkish constitution. I agree with Paradise Chronicle, we seem to have hit upon a workable compromise. Konli17 (talk) 11:12, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Let me break this one down for you. If you are not from Turkey, you simply have no connection with the Kurds in Turkey since Kurds are not homogenous, even within Turkey Kurds are all different. If you cannot speak Turkish you won’t be able to communicate with most of them. This woman doesn’t represent you in any way, she represents the minorities in Turkey who have the Turkish nationality. There is really nothing to be agreeing with to be honest, this woman has the Turkish nationality that comes along with her citizenship. Let me put it this way, I am not convinced by your arguments. Its ridiculous to leave her Turkish nationality out of the article. Redman19 (talk) 13:48, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Let's keep personal experience aside and go with what have to make an argument. Let's talk a bit about what citizenship means and what nationality means. The citizenship is given by law. This is mentioned, and I at least do not dispute it. But a nationality is based on the nation. A Nation is based culture, language, background, family. The nationality is given to them by the background of the people. And in the German Wikipedia the infobox is not used in personal articles so a comparison is a bit difficult. But if we go as the germans do it, at de:Sevim Dağdelen and other Kurdish Turkish immigrants in Germany like Helin Evrim Sommer, Hüseyin Ekinci, Leyla Bilge etc. there is no mention of a Turkish descent. Not even at Selahattin Demirtas there is a mention of a Turkish descent but of Zaza descent, His family being a member of the "Bevölkerungsgruppe" of the Zaza can even be translated as a member of the of Zaza Nation. Yes, it is mentioned he is Turkish politician, but of Zaza Kurdish background...Paradise Chronicle (talk) 16:20, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redman, if you don't speak English you won't be able to communicate with most Scots, but that doesn't make them English. Why do you talk about whether Ocalan represents me? What has that got to do with anything? Konli17 (talk) 16:52, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The people you mention are Germans in the first place, they have the German nationality, most Kurdish refugees from Turkey in Germany are former activists who either got stripped off their nationality or just fled the country getting rid of their papers themselves, which means they aren't Turkish citizens anymore, totally different case, in this case Dilek was born in Turkey and is active in Turkish politics, she has the Turkish nationality, you can consider doing it this way Dilek Öcalan (born 3 October 1987) is a Turkish-Kurdish politician of the Peoples' Democratic Party (HDP) who served as a Member of Parliament for the electoral district of Şanlıurfa, Turkey, from 2015 to 2018, it makes more sense this way, because people who do not have the Turkish nationality can't even be active in Turkish politics or be a representative in the parliament, kind regards. Redman19 (talk) 17:51, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really get what the problem is here. Redman brought the germans up on Konli17 talk page. And the Kurdish immigrants in Germany are not mentioned as of Turkish descent. Also not in the English wikipedia. And about Demirtas you didn't say a word. He is mentioned as a Turkish politician but of Zaza descent. Wanna say anything to answer to what I said about the difference of Nationality and Citizenship? The Turkish citizenship is mentioned. Why are there 2 different ways given in the infobox to mention citizenship and nationality? What do you think? Because there sometimes they signify two different things? Makes sense?Paradise Chronicle (talk) 20:40, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dear lord, Selahattin Demirtas has the Turkish nationality, just like any other citizen of Turkey, can we please consider staying reasonable instead of what you are doing now? I offered you guys an alternative option. Redman19 (talk) 06:05, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Secondly the German state does not keep statistics on race, instead they categorize ethnic groups originating from Turkey as being of Turkish national origin. Therefore, this also includes many Kurds and other ethnic minorities from Turkey. Totally different story for people who were stateless when they left Turkey, but they are still registered as being of Turkish national origin. Turkey isn’t any different because both Dilek and Selahattin are Turkish nationals, you either accept it or not, kind regards. Redman19 (talk) 06:25, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I offered you guys an alternative option but you guys keep ignoring that for same strange reason, I will get an admin to look at this case if you continue to revert my inputs, kind regards Redman19 (talk) 07:24, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have pointed out where she was born, like it is done usually in the lead. Involve an admin if you like.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 16:14, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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