Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Karate

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The following discussion is an archived proposal of the WikiProject below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the project's talk page (if created) or the WikiProject Council). No further edits should be made to this page.

The proposed WikiProject was created as a Taskforce, at Wikipedia:WikiProject Martial arts/Karate task force

UnitedStatesian (talk) 05:28, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Description[edit]

This proposed project is dedicated to improving Wikipedia's coverage of Karate and the organisation of information and articles on this topic. It is hoped that this project will help to focus the efforts of other Wikipedians interested in the topic, especially in light of interest in Karate in the lead up to the 2020 Olympic Games where it will feature as an Olympic Sport for the first time. Goals of the page would include:

  • Improve Wikipedia's coverage of Karate by improving, adding and re-working pages.
  • Improve referencing of articles on Karate, particularly replacing primary references where possible.
  • Improve articles that are associated with the inclusion of Karate at the Summer Olympics from the 2020 Olympic Games in Japan.
  • Create advice pages for articles about Karate.

Mountaincirque 15:11, 22 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]


List of important pages and categories for this proposed group


List of WikiProjects currently on the talk pages of those articles
Please invite these and any other similar groups to join the discussion about this proposal. See Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Directory to find similar WikiProjects.


Why do you want to start a new group, instead of joining one of these existing groups?
The Wikipedia:WikiProject Martial Arts community has been active in the past but has only had a handful of new participants join in the past two years and seems highly inactive. Also, inactivity aside, Karate is a high profile martial art with 4000 associated articles linking in. I feel that a more focused group of editors, who have the specific knowledge of the art, would be a very good idea; especially in light of Karate gaining Olympic sport status and featuring in the 2020 Olympic Games in its homeland of Japan. I would be very happy for active Wikipedia:WikiProject Martial Arts editors to join this project if they have expertise in Karate particularly.
The content does also fall under Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan but there is no active group or task force of martial arts or karate editors there.

Support[edit]

Also, specify whether or not you would join the project.

  1. Support (proposer) Mountaincirque 14:43, 22 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Whilst unlikely to join the project myself, I do feel this would be beneficial to Wikipedia. Yunshui 雲水 11:37, 23 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support, will join.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 04:21, 26 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support, will join if enough people are interested and willing to contribute. Dwanyewest (talk) 15:04, 26 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Support: "I will go, Sensei!"--100 Quatloos to any who get the reference. Doctor X (talk) 05:42, 29 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Support, will join. I think it might be better as a task force (perhaps joint) under WP:JAPAN and the martial arts project. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 16:27, 30 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  7. Support as a task force of WikiProject Martial arts. --Scott Alter (talk) 23:48, 1 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  8. Support especially when J-E translating and other sociocultural and linguistic clarification is needed. Please ping me. Dr.khatmando (talk) 02:22, 3 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion[edit]

The WP:WikiProject Karate page is live as a holding page based on the basic information here. If we receive some more support for this proposal (guidance recommends 6-12 supporters) then discussion and efforts will move there. Mountaincirque · Join WikiProject Karate? 11:02, 28 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What is the advantage of breaking karate out from the general martial arts project? Those interested in karate would be welcome and valuable as contributors and commenters on other martial arts. Papaursa (talk) 04:06, 30 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
To answer your specific question "general martial arts" covers a wide variety of disciplines from a number of different countries and times. This includes weapon-based arts. "Karate" ultimately is a collection of arts from Okinawa that spread to Japan and other countries. These arts, on Okinawa, may have borrowed from and blended with one another, which is a subject of research. The ultimate source(s) of these arts is also a source of research. Lot of legend, not a lot of hard evidence, but I think part of the "point" of the project is to clean up such.TheDoctorX (talk) 05:11, 30 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I don't disagree with what you say, but that doesn't really answer my question. Papaursa (talk) 00:06, 1 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Seems very unneeded if you ask me.★Trekker (talk) 12:17, 30 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@*Treker: please expand on why you think this is an un-needed Project as it will help us put the information together? I see that you are a member of WP:WikiProject Professional wrestling which seems to me to be a type of 'martial art' with its own WikiProject, why not Karate? Karate has 100 million practitioners worldwide according to the Olympics [1], surely that's enough interest to warrant a small community of Wikipedia editors working on it? Mountaincirque · Join WikiProject Karate? 13:45, 30 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Papaursa: I considered that but the WP:Martial arts community is incredibly broad, almost 14,000 articles over tens and tens of martial arts. Speaking as a karateka myself that has dabbled in aikido I have very little that I can add to articles on other martial arts technically, especially non-Japanese ones. The aim of this proposal is to bring together a group of editors who have technical knowledge in Karate.
Also, the guidance at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Guide states: WikiProject: This format is best for topics with thousands, or at least several hundred, of pages in the proposed scope, while Taskforce: This format is appropriate if your scope involves a few dozen to a few hundred pages. Based on this advice, Karate, which has well over 3,000 main space articles seems to firmly fall under a WikiProject. I don't see why editors cannot be members of both Projects if they so desire. For comparison, WP:WikiProject Mixed martial arts has 4400 main space articles while WP:WikiProject Sumo has less than 2000 main space articles, both of these fall under "martial arts" also. Mountaincirque · Join WikiProject Karate? 13:45, 30 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It seems completely unneeded when there is already another project which completely covers this subject and certainly doesn't seem to be overpopulated with users.★Trekker (talk) 14:01, 30 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I think I've answered that point to Papaursa above. Mountaincirque · Join WikiProject Karate? 14:48, 30 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Your argument seems to be based on the fact that you want this project to exist, not that there seem to be any actual need or advantage to it. The fact that it could exist under wikipedia guidlines doens't mean it'd be good. What do you or other karate enthusiats gain by having your own project to comment and list articles with when there are already another project that seems to have rather few users that already covers your field? Can't you just bring up problems or other stuff relating to karate articles on the martial arts talk-page. Just becuse you have zero interest in editing other martial arts articles that doesn't mean you don't belong there. As far as I'm concerned sumo could might as well be merged with the main martial arts project as well. The number of articles isn't everything, how many users actually engage in these projects, I've looked on the martial arts talkpage and it seems very calm most of the time, there is no overload. I'm not trying to be dismisive but genuinly where is the advantage, why would this be better for you or other karate enthusiasts?★Trekker (talk) 16:28, 30 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I still don't see a reason why karate needs to be split from martial arts. It's clearly a martial art and it's not like WT:WPMA is overloaded with discussions that crowd out karate topics. Papaursa (talk) 00:06, 1 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Just noting that no one needs the WikiProject Council's permission to create a WikiProject. Ever. They can certainly help someone trying to get one started, but permission is not required. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 06:50, 1 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That's true but the question was asked and opinion given. I predict that karate related articles will still be discuss in the general martial arts project and there will not be much traction for this project. It really is a question of participant numbers. I also don't see a need.PRehse (talk) 08:51, 1 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

To respond generally to @PRehse, *Treker, Nihonjoe, and Papaursa: I would be happy for this to be a smaller task force if that is what come out of the discussion, I'm not prissy about it being a WikiProject just that it gets the job done of bringing together more Karate-specialist editors in a community to highlight key weaknesses and gradually strengthen articles. Nihonjoe, you mentioned that this could be under both WP:Japan and WP:MA, how would that work in practice? Would it not have to sit under one in terms of location?

To answer Papaursa and Treker's points, I find the 'martial arts' community far too broad myself with tens of different 'arts', even archery is included, surely WikiProjects or task forces should cluster knowledge on a specific area together to create a community of expertise? Why editors with knowledge of archery/karate/Greco-Roman wrestling should be together on the same talk/project page is a little harder to justify as there are very few (if any) similarities in the arts. By having a specific place for Karate I think it would make it easier for editors with Karate knowledge to come forward and create an active community, fewer people are passionate about 'martial arts' broadly than they are about Karate/Sumo/Taekwondo specifically and hence a place where we can be passionate together is quite important in my opinion. Thanks for all your inputs, positive and negative as it's important to think this through.

Mountaincirque · Join WikiProject Karate? 22:29, 1 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think there is a great need to have a separate karate WikiProject, as WP:WikiProject Martial arts already fully encompasses all of karate. However, since it appears there are enough interested editors who would like a dedicated working space for karate, the best place is as a task force of WikiProject Martial arts. The structure and guidance at WikiProject Martial arts are more directly relevant to karate articles, so I think this would be a better place for the task force than WP:Japan (though the TF can be listed as one of Japan, too - but the actual page would be at Wikipedia:WikiProject Martial arts/Karate task force). --Scott Alter (talk) 00:02, 2 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: so the consensus seems to be coming to placing this as a task force under WP:WikiProject Martial arts (and listed as a connected task force of WP:WikiProject Japan, do any of the other supporters have any views on that? Personally I don't see how it affects what we need to achieve and seems to be a categorisation issue. We have 8 supporters at this stage which is above the recommended amount to proceed with a project/task force so if we are agreed that is the best way forward then the discussion here should move to the new page's talk page. Do we need some permission from WP:MA to put a new sub-page there or can we just proceed in good faith? Mountaincirque · Join WikiProject Karate? 09:44, 3 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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